Rethinking the Argument
Welcome to beautiful downtown Oklahoma City!
The more I chew over this whole Sonics to Oklahoma scenario, the more it makes me wonder if we aren’t just missing the boat here.
Maybe instead of begging the Sonics to stay here, they should be begging us instead.
Maybe letting the Sonics move to Oklahoma might be the best thing that ever happened to Seattle.
Why? Because maybe it’s time cities across the US finally stood up to professional sports teams and called their collective bluff. Everywhere you turn, a team is holding a city hostage. Seattle, Charlotte, Sacramento, Anaheim, they’ve all felt the pinch from NBA teams.
But does the NBA really think they’re better off with a team in
Oklahoma City than Seattle? Really? Here are some numbers culled from the web, comparing the two cities (all numbers from 2004, when available):
Population
Seattle, 573,911
Oklahoma City, 531,324
Metro Area:
Seattle: 3.1 million
OKC: 1.1 million
Cost of Living Index (100% is national average)
Seattle, 118%
OKC, 92%
Most Literate Cities
Seattle, No. 1
OKC, No. 38
Murders per 100,000 people
Seattle: 5
OKC: 9
Rapes per 100,000 people
Seattle: 30
OKC: 70
Aggravated Assaults per 100,000 people
Seattle: 387
OKC: 546
Education
HS or Higher
Sea: 89%
OKC: 81%
Bachelors
Sea: 47%
OKC: 24%
Graduate:
Sea: 17%
OKC: 8%
Median Age
Seattle: 35
OKC: 34
Median Income
Sea: $46,000
OKC: $35,000
Okay, that’s a lot to digest, I know. But mull it over a bit, and ponder this question –
What if Seattle told the NBA, “You don’t want us? Fine. Leave. Go ahead. Nobody’s stopping you. But 2, 3, or 5 years from now, when the Oklahoma SoonerSonics are drawing 11,000 a game, ad revenue is half of what it was in Seattle, the TV/Radio contract is a quarter of what they got from KJR and Fox Sports NW, don’t come crying to us. We’re not the ones who opted to move to a metro area a third the size of the one they were already in. We’re not the ones who thought that opting for a city with a citizenry that’s nowhere near as educated, and therefore nowhere near as likely to afford $20,000 for luxury suites. Yeah, we’ll let you put your team here, but it’s not going to cost us one red cent.”
It’s not likely to happen, but it sure would be nice.
45 Comments:
Would be nice, can't see it happening. Attendance for the NO/OKC hornets was great this season (better than the Sonics, I recall). Take a couple of years at least for that to fall off (if it does fall off). Then they can sell the team at a hefty profit, leaving the new owners to bitch about revenues/seek a new stadium/relocate somewhere else willing to take a chance. Maybe that's the future of the NBA - roving teams? After all, the players, coaches etc move around all the time, why not the teams?
so is adding an NBA team going to alter any of those numbers at all?!?
i'm thinking perhaps one that you failed to note: "children born out of wedlock" or "single parent households." Particularily if Shawn Kemp does complete his comeback (with Denver) and gets to visit the city in division play several times...
T-DAWG - Shawn Kemp jokes, soooooo funny, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, soo fresh and so original. Wow he likes to have kids out of wedlock REALLY????? No way??????? Stop please. We just had our team bought by some fuckin Ok city yokels, don't take shots at one of the best players to ever wear the jersey.
I was listening to Colin Cowherd On ESPN radio this morning (he's a native Seattlite) and he made some good points. How can the NBA approve of trading Seattle for OKLAHOMA CITY??? The NBA is a coastal, urban, hip league. It's a big city league. It's not for the heartland. America's working class drives the NFL. The urban people and the celebs drive the NBA. Look at an NBA game, and you see celebs and a diverse range of fans. At the NFL, you see working class people and diehards who live and die for their sports. In the NFL, being a fan is a way of life for most. And for most - MOST - NBA fans, being a fan is casual and not as demanding.
That said, how can the NBA swap these markets? If it was Vegas, then people can see this as viable and a smart "business move." As someone who saw my Browns move away from my city as a kid, I don't approve of any team that has been well-established in one market suddenly packing the moving vans. But trading Seattle for Oklahoma City? OKC may look nice right now bc of how they've welcomed the Hornets, but can that market support an NBA team 3-4 years down the road when the novelty has worn off? I doubt it.
The NBA will regret this.
I think this is the proper attitude. I love sports, but there's no reason at all why the city should have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to subsidize an already-profitable venture. I hate to see the Sonics go for nostalgia reasons, but practically, they're just demanding too much from the city.
"But 2, 3, or 5 years from now, when the Oklahoma SoonerSonics are drawing 11,000 a game, ad revenue is half of what it was in Seattle, the TV/Radio contract is a quarter of what they got from KJR and Fox Sports NW, don’t come crying to us."
They won't. They'll simply relocate to Vegas or sell for a profit. No sweat.
We should try to grab an NHL team. Give us something new to watch for a few years and keep the city from begging the NBA back.
bottom line Seattle desserves better this is an outrage.
www.petitionspot.com/petitions/Savethesonics
"We’re not the ones who opted to move to a metro area a third the size of the one they were already in."
Well, thepopulation numbers may be true, but Wally Walker and co. failed to put together any teams that captivated the interest of this town, so the Sonics were always pro sports team #4 (behind the M's, Hawks and the Huskies)
In OK, they are the only player in town...
Frankly, let 'em go. Keep the name. Make that a part of the buyout clause they negotiate next year. I don't want Nate, Jack, Gus, Fred, Lenny, and The Voice hanging in the rafters of the Ford Center. That would make me sick.
-Q
Mayor Nichols and that fucking lowlife, Nick Licatta, better start wearing helmets and flack jackets.....Those douchebags are directly responsible for this fiasco.......Not that Schultz doesn't deserve some of the blame...
This just does not seem real.....
Get real you stupid asshole. We just remodeled the Key 12 years ago. This city has serious problems -- schools, roads, public transit, etc -- that we don't have the money to address and you think we should shell out $200 million to subsidize a billionaire's plaything? That alone is proof that our schools are substandard. The mayor and the city council have -- for once -- acted responsibly and in good faith. They offered the Sonics not one, but 3 separate deals to remodel the Key, all of which involved heavy taxpayer subsidies. The Sonics are leaving 'cause Wally and Howie were tired of owning the team and wanted to cash out. So they sold to the highest bidder. Period. If you want to go psycho and shoot somebody at least aim at the right target. Ok fuckwit?
As for allowing OKC make off with our team name, colors and history, I say absolutely not. Maybe we can't keep the team here, but there's got to be some way Sonic fans can pressure the new owners to leave the name behind ...
biggie, sorry to offend your sensibilities so greatly by laughing at such a lame-duck situation.
1) Sonics aren't even the worst situation in the league right now despite the poor stadium deal...
The Hornets and Blazers are in dire straights and there are several other cities/franchises on par with the Sonics in mediocrity hell. Between the skyrocketing cost of being a fan, the locked in cap-mess where every team has bad contracts that can't go anywhere and the saturation of entertainment in general and sports in particular, and the looming mass recession brought on by low interest rates raising up and a nation maxed out on credit cards-- there is just not as much "free new money" out there to be had.
2) How can the NBA expect fans across the country to "love this game" when mediocre players get locked into long term contracts for extended years, and then you get to watch a craptastic team for an extended period of time. C'mon- think for a second-- do you really want to assist in paying Chris Wilcox's 6 yr 42 million dollar deal, all guaranteed? Think he deserves that much? Think if we don't give it to him, nobody else will offer a deal of very similar value?
The NBA needs to adjust its CBA in the immediate future or the league will cripple itself beyond reasonable recovery in markets smaller than the biggies (Chi-town, LaLa Land and NY.) The NBA used to have teams like Ft.Wayne and St. Louis and N.O. (the first time). Now those markets simply can't afford to play this millionaire's endgame. And no way the NBA goes to Vegas. A) Vegas money doesn't want to watch the NBA except for B) gambling which leads to C) point shaving, etc-- bad things in general.
3) You don't want hockey. I moved to Denver and have seen a couple Av's games live. Hockey sucks, in comparison. It is fast soccer with a couple extra goals (but not many.)
"Ohhhh... he almost scored again." All you do is hope for a fight. OVER RATED. Actually, that makes me think-- bring back the Tacoma Stars; now that at least was entertaining, and the players made just enough money to appreciate how lucky they were to be "playing" not "working" like the rest of us... well, at least in season.
Look, I love the Sonics; but the current NBA model is simply not one of the same ilk and enjoyment as that of the NBA I grew up watching (80's, 90's.) This year's playoffs were the best pro basketball I can remember seeing, but even so I just don't think there is anywhere near the entertainment value nor bang for the buck nor originality that you see in the college game.
Romar has created a new hoops powerhouse, he truly appears to be staying in Seattle and we can all bask in that national exposure and entertainment... the Seahawks are in a position to be a potential Patriot replacement as the "next dynasty" and the M's are...
well... Carl Everett and Chris Washburn make "why do i still like baseball" money. I recall Robin Yount becoming the first 3 million dollar player and thinking "Wow! that's CRAZY money!!!" Now Everett makes that to do nothing and is about to vest into 07?!?
okay. But we have 2 great high level sports environments, in two areas of sport where "now" matters to the players.
Until pro hoops and MLB fix some of their issues, I will remain a casual fan in hoops and a fantasy only guy in baseball. No biggie. I got books to read and life to live.
Sonic fans-- look back fondly at the great times we had, back before the NBA pulled an Isaiah and drove itself into the ground. The NBA as we thought we know it is dying already, but just doesn't realize it yet. If it does re-stabalize into what it was and could be again, don't worry-- the Sonics will be back in town eventually. For now, let somebody else's town go down with this Titanic mess, put on some dark funky bluish jersey and scream till your heart is content.
Here's is what needs to be done:
1. At the end of the 2006-2007 season, the City of Seattle and Seattle Supersonics/Storm owner Clayton Bennett agree to a buyout of the Key Arena for the 2007-2008, 2008-2009, and 2009-2010 seasons, wherein the City of Seattle gets enough money to pay off the remainder of the bills for the remodeling that the Key Arena received just over a decade ago.
2. Within the buyout agreement, Bennett needs to agree to change the team name and logo, among other things, upon moving to Oklahoma City; an example of team names could be the NBA Oklahoma City Tornadoes and the WNBA Oklahoma City Cyclones.
3. Bennett, NBA Commissioner David Stern, Seattle City Council President Nick Licata, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickles, and former Seattle Supersonics owner Howard Schultz, among other people, should be remembered by all of us as fucking cunts.
4. After the dust has settled, the City of Bellevue needs to begin building a state of the art arena that will be erected by 2010.
5. In 2010, the City of Bellevue needs to use the new arena to either receive expansion NBA and NHL teams, or else have teams relocate from other cities due to financial issues (e.g., the New Orleans Hornets or the Portland Trailbalzers and the Calgary Flames or the Edmonton Oilers).
It makes sense that a man whose fortune was built almost entirely on beans would, in the end, count every one. In Howard Schultz' Starbucks bio there is a bit about him wanting, "to build a company with soul", but seeing as Starbucks has always been lacking in the soul department he may have only succeeded in eviserating the souls of countless fans of the Seattle Supersonics. If the papers of Oklahoma City are to be believed then it really is just a matter of time. In the end the Supersonics will be theirs, and I'm fine with that. Sure, I've managed to hold on to my immaturity for years. During hoops season I'm so in touch with my ten year old self that I sometimes find myself alone in my bedroom studying long division, but, in the end, well, I honestly could care less. I love this city and I love this state, with or without an NBA team. They need me, not vice versa. I have cable TV. I have options. Now, don't misconstrue what I'm saying here, because I am pissed, but, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this mess. No, not me, no sir. See, I am a man of action. The self imposed embargo against all things Starbucks starts now. Including coffee. Oh yeah, coffee.
Possible OKC team names:
Dustbowls
Tornados
Scavengers
Bombers
McVeighs
Nick Licata wants to turn the Key into a video arcade after the Sonics leave. He is officially the biggest ass I have ever seen. I have never seen someone take their political position and use it for such a personal vendetta. If you all have forgotten, he was the head of Citizens for More Important things. He was the voice of the anti-Safco and Qwest movements. I hate his fucking guts and I hope he rots in hell. I will do whatever it takes to get him outsted during the next election.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2524530
Damn that really sucks ! :(
I'm a french sonic fan since 1994 and one of my dreams was to come to Seattle to see them play
But Oklahoma ????????
NEVER !!!!!!
Christopher said...
We should try to grab an NHL team.
We can't unless...dum dum dum.. we have a NEW ARENA
Just to clarify, for any OKC fans that happen across this site, I'm not bagging on your city. I don't think people from Oklahoma are stupid, I don't think they're red-necks, I don't think they're hillbillies, or any of those stereotypes. I just can't see why the NBA would rather be in Oklahoma rather than Seattle. When you look at the data, it just defies logic.
The argument could be made that if the Jazz can survive in SLC, then the Sonics should survive in OKC. I don't buy it, though. The Jazz were able to grow during a time of much more afforadable salaries, establish themselves with Stockton and Malone as perennial playoff teams, and create a loyal fanbase. Unless the Sonics start making the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs within a couple of years, I don't see that sort of thing happening in OKC, which means the team will never make money.
It's kind of you to try and console Sonics fans by claiming that Portland's situation is worse, but it's not the case. Key Arena isn't in the same league as the Rose Garden. THe Blazer's have a lease witht he Rose Garden that is all but air tight for the next 20 years due to a "poison pill" clause. It's also unclear if Allen is really interested in selling, as was very involved in the Blazer draft, both emotionaly and financially.
Having said that, I'm more than happy to have Sonics fans feel better about themselves at my expense. Condolences.
As one of those Oklahomans, I'm aware of both the stereotypes and the numbers.
Right now, OKC's claim to NBA fame is simply the ability to plant butts in the seats: the Hornets, 30th in the league in attendance in New Orleans, were 11th in Soonerland, a situation only partly attributable to the fact that the Ford Center is about ten percent bigger than the New Orleans Arena (or, for that matter, the Key).
It's reasonable to question whether there's a permanent fan base or if we're succumbing to the novelty of it all. I think there is: the Blazers always lead the Central Hockey League in attendance, whether they're any good or not, and the RedHawks draw well for a PCL team. The NBA, though, is the only major league in town, a situation that appeals to David Stern, who likes the idea of having less competition for the entertainment dollar. (The archetype here, of course, is the Spurs; San Antonio, despite 1.1 million people in town, is barely bigger than Oklahoma City in TV-market dimensions and will likely never have NFL or MLB teams.)
And I am heartened by the fact that whatever razzing we get from Puget Sound and vicinity is far more kindly, far less vicious, than the vitriolic spew that emanated from the bayou when the possibility loomed that the Hornets might stay in OKC.
Thanks for the understanding, cghill. We usually save our nastiest comments for Portland, anyway, so we don't have much left over for the rest of the country.
True, if you really want to rip out our soul bring the Blazers up here to replace the Sonics. pure hell.
It will be bad enough having to accept that the blazers are now our "local" team. barf.
FUCK PORTLAND
Just curious; what's the man-on-the-street feeling in Oklahoma City these days, cg? Obviously, Seattle is bitter about this, but can you gauge how people are feeling there?
when i said portland's situation was worse i wasn't merely speaking of the Rose Garden, but also of the travesty of a team they have fielded the last... oh... hell, when did Clyde the Glyde retire?!?
Portland chased away fans in droves. I grew up in Oly and moved south to Onalaska in h.s. (essentially were Stoudamire got arrested on I-5) and Longview for a short CC stint-- the Blazers were Southwest Washington's team, not the Sonics. I could never understand it, but they got Portland TV not Seattle, so I'm sure that's part of it.
That being said, the "Jail"Blazers as we all love to call them have chased away so many of their fans.
Bitter fans lose interest. Stern better watch his step or he will lose Seattle as a potential future franchise as well. He normally has an endgame and can play hardball with the best of them, but the system is broke right now, and while i am upset it looks like we will lose our team i'd rather not have one than have a crappy one a normal fan can't afford to see live anyway.
Here's what I think is the weird thing about this deal. The San Jose Mercury News reported this morning that the Sonics leadership turned down a $425 million offer from a Silicon Valley group lead by Oracel's Larry Ellison. The Sonics stated rationial for accepting Bennett's offer was that there was a better chance of the Sonics staying in Seattle.
I'm really having a hard time accepting the the Schultz's bean counters really care about the Sonics actually staying in town. And I really believe that the ultimate plan of the new ownership group is to get an NBA team in OKC.
So how do you reconcile all this? I've cooked up a conspracy theory that may not have any basis in reality but is fun to speculate on.
Stern comes to town and declares Seattle really doesn't care about an NBA team. But in reality he wants the Sonics to stay put. He makes a few phone calls. First, to his buddy Bennett in OKC who used to be on the board of the Spurs and has great connections across the NBA. Stern suggests to Bennett that the only way he is going to get his own team in OKC is by participating. Bennett buys the Sonics, forcing the city or local area to fund a new arena. The deal doesn't close until October, so if Bellevue or Renton step up to the plate quickly, Bennett doesn't actually have to follow through. Alternatively, if it takes 12 months to get an Arena in place, Bennett sells to local ownership at a hefty profit. Last case senerio is Bennett actually takes the team to OKC. So Bennett cannot lose.
As for the San Jose deal, Stern threatens to block the deal (league approval is required to move a franchise), thus preventing it from ever happening. It might have actually been out there, but Stern, not Schultz, actually put the kibosh on it. But Stern agrees to let it out in the public, assuaging Schultz who is being pilloried for selling the team to an outsider. Thus, Schultz can be the good guy who sold to the most likely to stay not the most profitable. (For some reason, I think this is important to Schultz).
Meanwhile, Stern is working to get rid of George Shinn, the scumbag, slimy owner of the Hornets and then Bennett will get his franchise after Bellevue or Renton steps up to the plate. Shinn will be prevented from actually moving the team to OKC where he has actually been seen drooling at the corporate funding that seems to be available.
"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" - The Wizard of Oz
The people of Seattle and all over Washington will get a chance to see what Oklahoma City is like when the Washington Huskies visit the Oklahoma Sooners in September. Norman is less than 20 minutes from downtown Oklahoma City. Trust me, Oklahoma City has a lot to offer.
I defy you to come up with 10 reasons why someone would want to live in OKC over Seattle.
We're the very definition of mixed emotions. I really believe that if we had our druthers (a word they don't use in Seattle, I'm sure), the Bennett group would have bought out George Shinn and David Stern would have approved the permanent move of the Hornets just because he was so happy to be rid of Shinn.
But it didn't happen, and frankly, I'd just as soon the Sonics didn't come down here at the earliest possible moment. It's like finding a new girlfriend the morning after you were dumped: whatever you're feeling, you're still having to adjust to the loss and you're just not ready to do this all over again.
(And truth be told, it was 107 degrees today, which makes it hard to come up with a really persuasive pitch for the merits of Oklahoma City, which have mostly to do with relatively low taxes, not a lot of overcrowding - we sprawl over 600 square miles, which I guess makes us the Anti-Portland - and dirt-cheap housing. The weather, of course, is a drawback; our occasionally Cro-Magnon politics might be considered another. On the upside, we can usually elect a governor on the first try.)
On OK City; I'm guessing the weather is similar to Wichita; I once played a round of golf there in 80 degree temperature at 8 a.m. By the end of the first hole, my shirt was stuck to my back-- and I hadn't even started to sweat.
Disgusting place, the midwest. I'm thankful somebody lives (and farms) there, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone outside of my whore ex gf.
Plus you are missing something else that kicks ass-- you call them mountains, we call them foothills. And the "real" mountains as well.
If I had my druthers, I'd live anywhere in the world BUT the midwest. Not to take anything away from you-- if you've lived there long and gotten used to it, enjoy the benefits... you can keep them!
On the "Man behind the curtain" commentary... perhaps. That is the way Stern works, but I'm just not certain he's gonna get any public money this time around. The bulk of the country is tired of paying, and I don't blame them a bit...
Also, my buddy and I decided if they keep the Colors and the name we will have a love/hate relationship. If they change name/color but keep the same players they will be our favorite team until the "new" Sonics eventually form.
Nuss, I emailed Nick Licata on Tuseday to see what his reaction was to this. He actually responded, even comenting about his remarks to SI about the Sonics lacking cultural value. I still don't like him, and inspite of the tone of my email, he did take the time to respond. For anyone interested, here is his response:
Thank you for writing me about the sale of the Seattle Sonics to a groupof investors from Oklahoma City. I have been saying for months that Iwould like to see the Sonics stay in Seattle, but not at a cost of over$200 million. As I stated several months ago, there is no doubt about it, my glib,foolish remark on the relative unimportance of professional basketballin Seattle was smug and wrong. In my clumsy way I was trying to pointout that Seattle is a world-class city for a variety of reasons, notjust because of the Sonics. Public leaders need to ask the right questions, and then listen to theanswers instead of providing good press copy. As an elected official, itis my job to weigh competing interests and decide what is the best useof taxpayer dollars. Let me give you some background on this issue. In 1995, after a City Council vote, the former Coliseum was rebuilt intoKeyArena at the request of the Sonics. That same year, the voters ofKing County narrowly voted down a baseball stadium. The StateLegislature and the King County Council overturned that decision. In1997, state voters narrowly passed a measure for a football stadium. Partly as a result of voter anger at the baseball stadium vote beingoverturned, state voters then passed a series of anti-tax initiativesthat constrained the ability of local governments to pay for basicservices. This forced cuts in services, and has had a lasting impact.Some governments, such as King County, have had to eliminate entirelines of business, such as providing swimming pools and parkconstruction. Right now the Seattle City Council is considering a tax levy proposalfrom Mayor Greg Nickels to provide funding for road and bridgemaintenance. This is needed because a principal funding source for thisbasic, core service was removed by an anti-tax measure. One goal ofanti-tax measures was to force local governments to put measures on theballot for voters to decide what they want government to do, so this isin line with the intent expressed by the voters. That is why I believeit is fair for the City Council to insist on a public vote for any taxproposal for a new basketball arena. These initiatives have forced elected officials to carefully choose whatitems to fund. For this reason, the Council crafted a set of reasonableconditions for negotiations, and the Mayor's office began discussionswith the Sonics former ownership. The economic model for professional basketball includes a reliance onpublic subsidies, The level of subsidy required for a NBA franchise hasincreased considerably in recent years. The Sonics consider the 1995version of KeyArena obsolete, only 11 years after its construction. Thisis not an isolated case: Memphis built a new arena in 1991, and thenagain in 2004. The economic lifespan of NBA arenas is decreasing and theamount of public subsidy-formerly a small portion-is now expected to bethe overwhelming majority. This is the economic model of the NBAnowadays. Keep in mind, the bonds used to finance construction of KeyArena willnot be paid off until 2014, four years after the Sonics lease expires. The current business model of the NBA depends not only on publicsubsidies, but on generating revenues from arenas that are much largethan KeyArena, in order to generate revenue from restaurants and shops.They want all the revenue the arena can generate, including fromconcerts, which are more profitable than Sonics games. NBA arenas arebecoming as much malls as sports arenas. That is why KeyArena isconsidered obsolete, not because of any structural defects, or lack ofgood sightlines, for example. As the KeyArena business plan notes, itwas rated "Best Venue in the NBA" in 2004, and has won Facilities andEvent Management's "Prime Site" award three times since opening. The question is, how much is enough? The proposal for a $220 millionKeyArena remodel, when including the remaining debt, and financed at 6%interest, would cost an annual $40 million tax subsidy for 15 years. I developed a proposal that would have provided $8-10 million in newannual revenues for the Sonics. The Mayor of Seattle proposed threeoptions to the Sonics. One of the options would have provided a $20million annual increase in revenues for the Sonics. The Sonics formerowners did not respond to any of the offers, and instead sold for $350million the business they purchased 5 years ago for $200 million. Thiswas their business choice; they chose to take their profits by sellingthe team, rather than accepting one of our offers and submitting it tothe public for a vote.
Sincerely, Nick Licata
Thanks for sharing that... and I hope the fact that he took the time to respond in as much earnestness as a politician ever will is greatly appreciated by all Sonic fans, despite his position contrary to many of us...
I believe though if we continue to voice our opinion we can make them listen.
Thanks for the letter, c-dub. I honestly believe both sides are being less than forthcoming here. Schultz is correct when he says that the Sonics' lease puts them at a disadvantage relative to the rest of the NBA. Licata is correct when he says the NBA's business model is growing increasingly more expensive for municipalities.
However, Schultz is being disingenuous when he claims the team gets no "respect" from the city, and Licata is being deceitful when he acts as though the city has bent over backwards to support the team, only to be rebuffed.
In reality, we as citizens/sports fans need to take a hard look at this situation, because it is emblematic of what is going on across the country. In supporting professional sports teams with million-dollar stadiums, we are, in effect, subsidizing high player salaries, profitable franchises, and, most importantly, high ticket prices. In a perfect world, sports fans would unite, tell their politicians to work together, and force sports teams to build their own stadiums. The result? Lower-priced buildings with smaller capacities, lower player salaries due to decreased revenue, and lower ticket prices.
Coming from an Oklahoman who is very urban...you guys are idiots. Ive lived in Seattle, Chicago, San Diego, and New York...Oklahoma is an extremely supportive city to everything that goes on in it...the numbers from 2004 to now have changed drastically, maybe you should pull your heads out of your tie-dyed asses and do your research
anonymous, I think YOU need to pull your head out of YOUR ass. We wear flannel and ripped jeans, not tie-dye. Thats the Bay Area! Maybe you should do a little research.
Besides the ever popular Woody Guthrie, dust and the parking meter, what does Oklahoma have to offer? What does Oklahoma do to contribute to America? Planes? Software? Coffee? Video games? What does Oklahoma have that the rest of the country could not live without? Please enlighten me, Wikipedia doesn't have much to say about Oklahoma,except you have a state meal that could kill an ordinary man.
Fried okra, squash, cornbread, barbecue pork, biscuits, sausage and gravy, grits, corn, strawberries, chicken fried steak,
pecan pie, and black-eyed peas.
I assume that most Oklahomans are the picture of health? They apparently forgot to add cigaretts to the list, and mayonaise. Enjoy yourself on the porch in front of the bug zapper tonight, I heard theres a swarm of mosquitos headed your way, should make for a good show.
Your Green Acres portrayal of OKC is quite amusing, but far from the truth.
oxymoron of the day:
an oklahoman that is very urban.
heh heh... that's such a cutely quaint concept. but how does it happen?
are you a metrosexual too? can you even be a metrosexual in oklahoma?
and who ever started an argument by saying, "I'm very urban" and in the same sentence, "you guys are idiots."
I hate to tell you that a city of a little over half a million that covers 600 square miles is not "urban". Thats a density of 875 people per square mile compared to Seattle at the same population covering 84 square miles. Thats a density of 6900 people per square mile, now thats urban! Also, the Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia-Bellevue-Everett metro area has more people than your entire state. And I don't consider Everett "urban". Boise Idaho has more density than OKC. I have been to Boise Idaho, and you, sir, are no Boise Idaho.
Well, we're not evenly distributed: about 95 percent of the population lives on about 45 percent of the area. (In the 1960s, annexation was all the rage; at one point the city topped out at 640 square miles and spilled into five counties. Current figures are 621 - including 17 of inland water, which isn't easy to build a house on - and, barely, four.)
The comparison in metro areas, though, is quite unassailable: no way is the size of metro OKC anywhere close to the size of metro Seattle.
Oh, and we also invented the shopping cart.
Anomymous, you know absolutely shit about Oklahoma City. You want to be enlightened on what we offer to the rest of the country? Okay, I'd be happy to oblige.
The shopping cart was invented in Oklahoma City in 1955. We manufacture hard drives for Seagate, provide tech support for Dell. The doppler radar was invented here. We do tons of maintentance on fighter jets, have almost a dozen universities, employ over 50,000 scientists for bio-medical research. We are also the weather research capital of the U.S.
Famous people from Oklahoma City? The Flaming Lips, James Garner, Tisha Campbell, Megan Mullaly, Hinder, Color Me Badd (was never a fan, though)... I could go on.
How about you get off your coastal high-horse and stop watching Grapes of Wrath to get an impression of Oklahoma.
Oh, wait, I forgot. This is America, whose primary source of education is Hollywood.
I wanted to give an impartcial view. I was born and raised in austin TX, but currently reside in Okc. Your original theory is way off. So is your Pic. Have you ever seen bricktown? Have you ever heard of the MAPS project. They've spent close to a billion dollars in the past decade completely remodeling downtown. It's basically a mini San Antonio or at least trying. The population thing is irrelevant. Seattle has three times the people and supports 3 pro teams. I think 1/3 the people should be able to support 1 pro team. As for not making as much money...look at your own numbers. cost of living is way below yours thus leaving extra money for fun. you really should think before you starttalking trash and throwing out randow numbers. Not from here, but if all the people in Seattle are like you I'd take Okc any day.
Did all the creeps in Seattle post a comment or what???!!!
After reading the comments from the Seattle faithful and then the Oklahoma faithful , i would much rather the team move to OKC anyday!! Is it me or is everybody who posted a comment from Washington state an uptight idiot...
SEE THE SOONER STATE BEFORE YOU MAKE IGNORANT COMMENTS!!
MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE IN SEATTLE NEED A BREATH OF FRESH OKLAHOMA AIR!!!
A reference to the bombing?
That's class!
For a city with SOOOO much to do and see, it seems to be filled with some bitter bastards.
I think the new ownership should keep the name, colors, and record.
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